‘Diversity doesn’t mean that the differences disappear’

Matthias: Women make up half of the world’s population. For a retail operation, that alone is enough to cast doubt on the strategy of having men make all the decisions about products, outlet design and marketing. For me, it’s not even about the question of whether or why we want or need more women in leadership positions. Every company wants the best, and looking for them in only one half of the population isn’t logical, even in purely statistical terms. If companies want to be successful in future, they have to be versatile and agile. With a workforce or a management team that is homogenous and simply keeps shouting the same solutions at each other as if they were in an echo chamber, that’s not possible.

Matthias: The LEAD Network reacted to the Covid-19 situation very quickly. In the individual countries and throughout Europe, they developed webinars, for example, about how leadership can continue to succeed under the current conditions. We realised that we aren’t alone with our problems and questions. LEAD gave everyone in the network the opportunity to talk about them and get our arms around the situation together. In my opinion, these events showed that the leadership qualities most women possess are a real advantage, especially in the situation we are experiencing now. Many women had already had to acquire certain skills to be successful, such as the ability to prioritise and organise in order to cope with the double burden of having a job and caring for children, which still mostly affects women. But you also have to remember that women in general make up a large percentage of the workforce in our industry sector, such as in the outlets, and some of them have been exposed to far greater burdens since March 2020. This is where I think leadership goes beyond responsibility as a supervisor. Everyone can make a huge contribution by acting as a role model or motivating their colleagues.

Laura: That is a big question that we could talk about for hours. Let me highlight 3 points. Firstly, operating business, where we haven’t seen many women in leadership roles thus far, calls for an especially high degree of flexibility. The job that represents the next rung on the career ladder may not be where you currently live, so you have to relocate or accept a longer commute. And the working hours that are a factor of the long store opening times in retail are not necessarily family friendly. More flexible conditions need to be created here. Secondly, when I talk with women about their careers, I often notice that they don’t think big in terms of their career goals. They limit themselves because certain things are not possible under today’s conditions rather than widening their lens, changing their perspective and taking things as they come. I would like to see a great deal more self-confidence here. A third major issue is the society we live in. Matthias mentioned the example of Norway. In Germany, for instance, we are still very traditional. A female CEO? A mother who goes back to work soon after the birth of her child? A man who stays home or works part time? A man who works as an early years teacher? These are all still very rare and not entirely accepted by society. Here, I hope to see more role models taking a public stance. More openness and reflection in cases where we find we have preconceptions yet again.

Matthias, you have been involved with the issue of diversity and inclusion for quite some time. Do you think there can be a world in which gender, skin colour and sexual orientation truly do not matter and all that counts are a person’s qualifications for a job?

Matthias: Yes, I am confident of that, at least as far as the second part of the question goes. Today, there are already plenty of methods that show how to minimise bias in the selection process so that the focus is on qualifications. As far as the beginning of the question, however, I want us to live in a world where differences still do play a role. After all, diversity isn’t about making these differences disappear. Sexual orientation is a striking example. Companies often claim that that plays no role and then when you listen more closely, you realise that the reason it plays no role is that nobody talks about it, and some people even invent fake double lives. To my mind, the next step would be to make the processes that smooth out the differences obsolete, so we can be who we are and the focus is on our performance.

Laura: Equality is what drives me. I started to get involved with the issue of gender equality when I was an IT executive and pregnant. I went back to work full time as soon as I was legally permitted after giving birth, and my husband stayed home to care for our daughter. Many people in our orbit couldn’t get their heads around this role reversal, and still can’t. I kept noticing that there are still unwritten rules about traditional roles. And I wondered where all the women from my school days, my trainee years and university were. I want everyone to be able to pursue their goals and achieve them. Over time, I’ve seen that there are still additional areas where equality does not exist. I want us not to have to talk about diversity and inclusion in 10 years’ time because we’ll be living them. Throughout our entire society. However, LGBT+, for example, is not yet part of the conversation everywhere, not by a long shot. People still experience discrimination. I want to change that.

While you’re advancing women, how do you manage not to go too far the other way and discriminate against men?

Laura: The only way to get on top of this is to work together. That’s why it’s important to me to get men involved and show them how they will benefit from it. Of course, we are often asked why we have a development programme only for women at METRO. It’s not about putting men at a disadvantage but about creating equal opportunities. We realised that we were missing a strong female talent pipeline, especially in the operating business. With this programme, we are ensuring balanced succession planning, creating a platform for female talent and supporting our high-potential women in their career plans and along the path to the executive level.